Who Are “They” in Daniel 2:43?
“And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves
with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is
not mixed with clay.” KJV
To read the entire story of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream and the
interpretation Daniel gives of it, go here:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Dan&c=2&v=1&t=KJV
This is the section detailing the dream Nebuchadnezzar had:
Dan 2:31-35 “Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image,
whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was
terrible. This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver,
his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and
part of clay.
Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image
upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the
iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together,
and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried
them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image
became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.”
And this is immediately followed by the interpretation from
God that Daniel gave to Nebuchadnezzar of this dream:
Dan 2:36-45 “This is the dream; and we will tell the
interpretation thereof before the king. Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for
the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And
wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of
the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them
all. Thou art this head of gold.
And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third
kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in
pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it
break in pieces and bruise.
And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of
iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of
the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the
toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be
partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry
clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not
cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which
shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but
it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for
ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain
without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the
silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come
to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof
sure.”
Nebuchadnezzar sees a statue of 5 sections, and also 1 stone,
and each correspond to 6 kingdoms.
1. Gold = Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom
2. Silver = inferior kingdom after his
3. Brass = will rule over all the earth
4. Iron = strong as iron, iron breaks all things, but this kingdom will break
5. Iron mixed with clay = a “divided” kingdom, “part” strong and “part” broken
6. stone that destroys the statue, becomes a mountain, and fills the earth
= The eternal kingdom of Jesus Christ
Who could “they” be in Dan 2:43? The word translated as “they”
is the Hebrew “hava”.
The 5th kingdom contains Daniel 2:43, so let’s look at only the verses on the
5th kingdom, and I have underlined everywhere the word “hava” appears:
“And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters'
clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it
of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry
clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the
kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron
mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but
they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.”
These verses describe 1 kingdom, but a kingdom
that has 2 divisions, or 2 parts.
The word “hava” is used 5 times in this passage. In 3 places the
word “hava” references to the kingdom. It could make sense that the
other 2 times “hava” also references to the kingdom, except that
“they” is plural.
What could be referenced to in this verse that is plural? The 2
divisions of the kingdom, the iron and the clay parts, could be
referenced to as plural. Thus in context, the “hava” which is the
plural “they”, would seem to reference to the divided parts of the
kingdom. The 2 parts of the kingdom would seem to be the most likely
suspect for what is referenced to with “they”.
If so, the meaning would read like this:
‘the parts of the kingdoms shall mingle themselves with the seed of
men, but the parts of the kingdom will not cleave one to another,
even as iron is not mixed with clay”
Or
“the iron part of the kingdom and the clay part of the kingdom shall
mingle themselves with the seed of men, but the iron and clay parts
of the kingdom will not cleave to one another, even as iron is not
mixed with clay”
The most straightforward reading here would be to think “they” are the 2
parts of the kingdom that were defined in the previous verses describing this
5th kingdom.
That being the case, “they” would be the 2 divisions of the 5th kingdom, and Dan
2:43 describes that they will mingle in descendents, but will not join together
and become unified.
This word for “mingle” is only used here in the Bible, meaning “mix, mingle,
or join together”, but also the most closely related word to this word, means
“to traffic as in barter, to give or be security as a kind of exchange”. The
concept here is one of surety, or something given as a pledge, joining two
together in a loose way. The picture this paints is these 2 parts of the
kingdom, the strong and the broken, pledging the seed of men, or pledging their
descendents, among themselves, to each other, in order to hold together more
tightly. However, the 2 parts of the kingdom cannot actually join into unity,
but remain separate divisions of the weak and the strong.
Some people argue that the iron empire is the Roman Empire. When the Roman
Empire fell, it was replaced by widespread feudalism, and the practice of
marriages used to make alliances between countries was common, as well as
alliances of powerful families on a smaller scale. To some extent, the same
practice is seen today in companies, corporations, multi-national conglomerates,
and other such entities, which seem to unite with mergers and such. Arguably,
cooperations today have enough money, and even enough political influence, to be
comparable to kingdoms of the past. And they do interweave in ownership down
through the generations of mankind, or “mingle themselves with the seed of men”.
The modern fact of cooperate power, while we are accustomed to it today, could
be considered novel in a historical context, and might qualify it for a mention
in prophecy.
This is of course just one possible interpretation. Others are also possible.
But I do think the simplest, most straightforward explanation for who “they”
are in Dan 2:43 is that “they” are the parts, or iron and clay. In this reading
from the KJV, it is not that difficult to figure out what was meant by “they”,
if one just applies some logic to the verse within it’s larger context in the
chapter of Daniel 2. Therefore, any fair interpretation that sticks to what the
text actually says should consider “they” to reference to the iron and the clay
parts as what are being referenced to as “they”.
I have heard people say that “they” refers to “fallen angels”. There are some
problems with this interpretation. With the straightforward reading above, the
ambiguity about “they” is clarified, and stays within the stated meanings in the
context of the passage, so this should be the preferred reading. So there really
isn’t room to fit fallen angels into this verse. That being said,
Another problem is that the gold, silver, brass, iron & clay, and the stone, are
all defined in the passage as being “kingdoms”, and the first is Nebuchadnezzar
and his kingdom, and he was a man. So it would seem that kingdoms of men are
what are being referenced to here in the case of each and all of the kingdoms.
Another problem is found in the interpretation of the dream, immediately
after verse 43.
In verse 44 Daniel says:
“And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which
shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but
it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for
ever.”
As such, the “they” that is referenced to in Daniel 2:43 seems be further
defined from verse 44. Daniel 2:44 implies that “they” are “these kings”. And in
contrast, the kingdom of stone will not be given to “other people” which implies
that “these kings” are in fact “people”, and therefore are not fallen angels,
but human beings.
And so including the contextual definitions from Dan 2:44, “they” would have to
be kings and human. The dream is about kingdoms of men to be known by men in all
cases.
This interpretation is merely drawn from close examination of the stated text,
looking at the verse of 2:43 in context of the larger passage.
So while there is room for potentially many interpretations about which people
or groups of people would compose the iron and clay parts of the 5th kingdom, it
seems clear from the text that “they” are these parts, which are represented by
human “kings”, and therefore not by fallen angels.
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